[Webtest] Re: Announcement: WebTest Result Viewer - alpha ver sion

Erskine, Chris webtest@lists.canoo.com
Mon, 2 Aug 2004 15:54:45 -0500


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If the recorder is generating the ANT scripts, then, after you have recorded
the scripts the first time, you are maintaining ANT scripts.  Because you
now have the ANT scripts, there should not be any difference between
creating the scripts the first time by hand and by the recorder (although
the recorder should go faster).

 

Chris Erskine

 

EDS Consulting Services

F5-EDS-001

2424 Garden of the Gods Rd

Colorado Springs, CO  80919

 

Phone: 719-535-6064

 

Phone:

mailto:chris.erskine@eds.com <mailto:chris.erskine@eds.com> 

  _____  

From: Aatish Arora [mailto:a_aatish@yahoo.com] 
Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 2:48 PM
To: webtest@gate2.canoo.com
Subject: RE: [Webtest] Re: Announcement: WebTest Result Viewer - alpha ver
sion

 

Lisa, what you sounds perfect.

 

Chris your solution although sounds good is dangerous. Specially in cases
where there are lot of changes being made to the GUI.

A small change can throw you into a turmoil. 

Which is why I liked the way Webtest scripts can be handled. I had 1200
tests which I could boast of. And a lot of changes in the GUI of the AUT
(application under test) dint affect me much. A little tweak with properties
and ant files you can mantain your test suite easily.

 

On the other hand I have yet to see a recorder that will make your tests
powerfull (yes even after editing them and adding verification checks). They
dont make functions. The dont make GUI maps (property files in our case).

 

Heres one concrete example that you can use. In your scripts use properties
for refrence to objects and keep all these properties in one or more
property files. When there is a change to the name of any of these objects,
all you have to do is change it in one file not all of them. Sounds good?

A recorder cant do such things for you. 

 

Cheers

Aatish



Lisa Crispin <lisa.crispin@att.net> wrote:

I like the recorder to help get started, especially for a newbie. I don't
think there is any danger of Canoo WebTest being mistaken for a
capture/playback GUI test tool. The documentation should emphasize the
purpose of the recording tool - just a little help getting started and
saving some time and tedium, not something to be relied on for creating
tests.
-- Lisa


-------------- Original message from "Erskine, Chris" : -------------- 

Although you are right that a recorder is not the answer for true testing, I
feel that tying a recorder to WebTest can give you the best of both worlds.
You start by recording your scripts. You add an editor which shows the page
and allows you to highlight the text that you want to verify. You then edit
the generated script to add the steps that you need that the recorder does
not support.

The recorder is just a metho! d to help you get started. You still need to
maintain your scripts that are generated.

Chris Erskine

EDS Consulting Services
F5-EDS-001
2424 Garden of the Gods Rd
Colorado Springs, CO 80919

Phone: 719-535-6064

Phone:
mailto:chris.erskine@eds.com



From: Aatish Arora [mailto:a_aatish@yahoo.com] 
Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 1:17 PM
To: webtest@gate2.canoo.com
Subject: RE: [Webtest] Re: Announcement: WebTest Result Viewer - alpha
version

A word of caution for recording related stuff Mittie.
Although a recording does sound great and it does impress a lot of people -
including the managers - it isnt quite the way to do test automation. And
this will also be emphasized by almost all Test Papers available on the web.
A recording tool can almost never be as intelligent and as powerful your
scripts can be.
...and defeats the basic aim of automation - to keep costs low cause you end
up recording all the time and al! most never can mantain a test suite with
the same.

Cheers!
Aatish

Dierk Koenig wrote:
Sure, the goal is to collect some feedback before putting it
in the distribution. I think this will take a few weeks.

The long-term goal is to provide other small gizmos like this
and bundle them to an application suite. The technology is perfekt for
doing this. Other gizmos may be:
- Click-O-Mat
a MaxQ-like Recording Tool for WebTest.
A first version is running but needs some spit'n polish before
it can be released.



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Express yourself with Y! Messenger! Free. Download now.
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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>If the recorder is generating the =
ANT
scripts, then, after you have recorded the scripts the first time, you =
are
maintaining ANT scripts.&nbsp; Because you now have the ANT scripts, =
there
should not be any difference between creating the scripts the first =
time by
hand and by the recorder (although the recorder should go =
faster).<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>=


<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Chris Erskine</span></font><font
color=3Dnavy><span style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
7.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>EDS Consulting =
Services</span></font><font
color=3Dnavy><span style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
7.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>F5-EDS-001</span></font><font =
color=3Dnavy><span
style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
7.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>2424 Garden of the <st1:Street =
w:st=3D"on"><st1:address
 w:st=3D"on">Gods Rd</st1:address></st1:Street></span></font><font =
color=3Dnavy><span
style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><st1:place w:st=3D"on"><st1:City w:st=3D"on"><font =
size=3D1
  color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Arial;
  color:navy'>Colorado Springs</span></font></st1:City><font size=3D1 =
color=3Dnavy
 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>, <st1:State
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w:st=3D"on">80919</st1:PostalCode></span></font></st1:place><font
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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
7.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Phone: =
719-535-6064</span></font><font
color=3Dnavy><span style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Times New =
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>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
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style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
7.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><a =
href=3D"mailto:chris.erskine@eds.com">mailto:chris.erskine@eds.com</a></=
span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font =
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face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>

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</span></font></div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font =
size=3D2
face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> =
Aatish Arora
[mailto:a_aatish@yahoo.com] <br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Monday, August 02, =
2004 2:48
PM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName =
w:st=3D"on">webtest@gate2.canoo.com</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> RE: [Webtest] =
Re:
Announcement: WebTest Result Viewer - alpha ver =
sion</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>Lisa, what you sounds perfect.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>Chris your solution although sounds good is dangerous. =
Specially in
cases where there are lot of changes being made to the =
GUI.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>A small change can throw you into a turmoil. =
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>Which is why I liked the way Webtest scripts can be handled. I =
had 1200
tests which I could boast of. And a lot of changes in the GUI of the =
AUT
(application under test) dint affect me much. A little tweak with =
properties
and ant files you can mantain your test suite =
easily.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>On the other hand I have yet to see a recorder that will make =
your
tests powerfull (yes even after editing them and adding verification =
checks).
They dont make functions. The dont make GUI maps (property files in our =
case).<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>Heres one concrete example that you can use. In your scripts =
use
properties for refrence to objects and keep all these properties in one =
or more
property files. When there is a change to the name of any of these =
objects, all
you have to do is change it in one file not all of them. Sounds =
good?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>A recorder cant do such things for you. =
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>Cheers<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>Aatish<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><br>
<br>
<b><i><span style=3D'font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'>Lisa Crispin
&lt;lisa.crispin@att.net&gt;</span></i></b> =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<blockquote style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1010FF =
1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>I like the recorder to help get started, especially for a =
newbie. I
don't think there is any danger of Canoo WebTest being mistaken for a
capture/playback GUI test tool. The documentation should emphasize the =
purpose
of the recording tool - just a little help getting started and saving =
some time
and tedium, not something to be relied on for creating tests.<br>
-- Lisa<br>
<br>
<br>
-------------- Original message from &quot;Erskine, Chris&quot; : =
--------------
<br>
<br>
Although you are right that a recorder is not the answer for true =
testing, I
feel that tying a recorder to WebTest can give you the best of both =
worlds. You
start by recording your scripts. You add an editor which shows the page =
and
allows you to highlight the text that you want to verify. You then edit =
the
generated script to add the steps that you need that the recorder does =
not
support.<br>
<br>
The recorder is just a metho! d to help you get started. You still need =
to
maintain your scripts that are generated.<br>
<br>
Chris Erskine<br>
<br>
EDS Consulting Services<br>
F5-EDS-001<br>
2424 Garden of the <st1:Street w:st=3D"on"><st1:address =
w:st=3D"on">Gods Rd</st1:address></st1:Street><br>
<st1:place w:st=3D"on"><st1:City w:st=3D"on">Colorado =
Springs</st1:City>, <st1:State
 w:st=3D"on">CO</st1:State> <st1:PostalCode =
w:st=3D"on">80919</st1:PostalCode></st1:place><br>
<br>
Phone: 719-535-6064<br>
<br>
Phone:<br>
mailto:chris.erskine@eds.com<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
From: Aatish Arora [mailto:a_aatish@yahoo.com] <br>
Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 1:17 PM<br>
To: <st1:PersonName =
w:st=3D"on">webtest@gate2.canoo.com</st1:PersonName><br>
Subject: RE: [Webtest] Re: Announcement: WebTest Result Viewer - alpha =
version<br>
<br>
A word of caution for recording related stuff Mittie.<br>
Although a recording does sound great and it does impress a lot of =
people -
including the managers - it isnt quite the way to do test automation. =
And this
will also be emphasized by almost all Test Papers available on the =
web.<br>
A recording tool can almost never be as intelligent and as powerful =
your
scripts can be.<br>
...and defeats the basic aim of automation - to keep costs low cause =
you end up
recording all the time and al! most never can mantain a test suite with =
the
same.<br>
<br>
Cheers!<br>
Aatish<br>
<br>
Dierk Koenig <DIERK.KOENIG@CANOO.COM>wrote:<br>
Sure, the goal is to collect some feedback before putting it<br>
in the distribution. I think this will take a few weeks.<br>
<br>
The long-term goal is to provide other small gizmos like this<br>
and bundle them to an application suite. The technology is perfekt =
for<br>
doing this. Other gizmos may be:<br>
- Click-O-Mat<br>
a MaxQ-like Recording Tool for WebTest.<br>
A first version is running but needs some spit'n polish before<br>
it can be released.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Do you Yahoo!?<br>
Express yourself with Y! Messenger! Free. Download now.<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
WebTest mailing list<br>
WebTest@lists.canoo.com<br>
http://lists.canoo.com/mailman/listinfo/webtest<o:p></o:p></span></font>=
</p>

</blockquote>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font =
size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>

<hr size=3D1 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter>

</span></font></div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>Do you Yahoo!?<br>
<a
href=3D"http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mail_us/taglines/virus/*http:/promotions.=
yahoo.com/new_mail/static/protection.html">Yahoo!
Mail</a> - Helps protect you from nasty =
viruses.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

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